UPDATE: Seven Seas has responded to this issue:
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Those portions of the text were removed during the editorial process at the time, but we have since changed how we edit these books to make sure important lines are not lost. We’ll be revising the ebook within the next few weeks to add the cut portions back into the book, and the revision will also be reflected in all future printings of the paperback.
Thanks to everyone who wrote them politely.
SECOND UPDATE: Someone on ANN Forums asked a couple of questions about this post. I have clarified those comments on that forum, if you are interested.
THIRD UPDATE: Setting aside editorial choice for the moment – typographic errors are not a personal attack. There are a lot of moving parts in publishing. There’s no rational basis for assuming either that a company cannot be trusted because a typo occurred OR than there was intent. I read three books this week. I found three typos. I wrote one company and privately told them about the typo, in case it can be fixed. One was in a Japanese book – they have typos, too, and the third was not important enough to care about. I have found errors in books for which I know absolutely more than5 pairs of eyes went over the copy. Typos happen. Being angry about them is just not healthy for either you, or fandom.
****
What a day! I woke up this morning ready to face an AMA on reddit as part of a Women’s Month celebration with my publisher (the thread is ongoing, feel free to drop in). I had a review lined up.
I almost instantly found myself facing links to a thread on the J-Novel Club Forum, about a potential problem with Seven Seas’ I’m in Love With the Villainess, Volume 1. I’m not quoting the thread here, because after some conversation, the OP calmed down a lot, so I don’t want to make it seem like they are still spitting angry. You can click the link if you want specifics. The thread title is a fanwank, Seven Seas is not in trouble. I am aware there was a recent issue with a translation that they did and human nature being aligned to pattern-recognition, caused some readers to recognize a pattern. (I’m of the belief that you need three things to form a pattern, but that’s me.) So instead of a review, we’re going to talk about this.
To summarize, there is a passage in Volume 1, where Rae speaks about internalized homophobia from LGBTQ representation in Japanese media, and, as a result, overplayed her love for Claire as hyperbolic comedy. It was a good passage, and the OP was incensed that it had been deleted. Of course, whenever a fan shouts “censorship!” there’s always a mob of people ready to pull out pitchforks and torches.
I’ve written to Seven Seas to see if they would like to have an official, on the record, response to this, but in the meantime I have a few thoughts I want to share. These are in reverse order to their appearance in my responses on that same forum thread, with some thoughts from Twitter interspersed. Before we talk about appropriate responses to this issue, let us understand the issue itself. Since I never read Volumes 1 or 2 in Japanese, I am coming to this the same as you are.
The OP was comparing the Japanese Volume 1 with the English Volume 1. I pointed out that we, the readers cannot truly know where the disconnect was. It may have been Seven Seas who deleted the scene – which frankly makes no sense to me. GL Bunko may also have sent Seven Seas a bowdlerized copy with that scene deleted, as there has been a serious crackdown on Japanese media freedoms and, while it is hard to imagine that the Abe government would care about a US published edition of a web novel-based light novel, maybe someone at GL Bunko thought it sensible to remove the line.
Secondly, we do not know what decisions were made at Sevens Seas or why. The passage seemed to me to clearly be discussing “representation” like Hard Gay, which was hyperbolic and extreme. If one wasn’t familiar with that sort of “comedy” the passage could be misunderstood. It might have been removed to avoid confusion – if indeed it was removed by Seven Seas.
To be clear – I hope this was a fixable mistake. I thought the missing passage made sense and clarified some of Rae’s early choices…and I genuinely enjoy every glimpse we get of Ohashi Rei in the story. But we may never know what happened, because we may never be able to know. Being fans of a series does not grant us access to the contracts. Unless we are involved in making this particular sausage, we might never know what goes into it.
We may not know why this happened, but there are something that are 100% under our control. We can always control our response to the controversy. Here I am going to quote from my own comment on the thread:
…ascribing any changes to malicious intent is not all right. Of course you are welcome to not read anything they sell, but what good does that do? Then you don’t get to enjoy the rest of these wonderful books. Tantrums are not the way adults handle problems. Hateful rhetoric leads to hateful behavior…we do not want someone taking their frustration to a KyoAni level. We cannot allow that.
Take moment and write Seven Seas a polite, firmly worded email expressing the problem. Ask them to restore deleted passages. If they get enough feedback, they might (probably will) change their position. There’s no guarantee, but there’s a much better chance than if you rant on a forum. When Viz made some decisions that in aggregate seemed very trans- and homophobic, I and a lot of folks wrote them and asked for the decisions to be fixed…and they were. They even fixed an issue that had hurt someone for decades, when their deadname had not been removed from a credit. THAT is how we make change, not harmful rhetoric. We know where that leads.
There is no place in Yuri fandom for hate of any kind.
So I’m asking you all, as another fan of ILV, don’t speak of this as an attack on you or on fandom. It’s a very unhealthy way to think of anything. We don’t need to be angry. We can be disappointed and let Seven Seas know.
Yuri fandom must remain a friendly, welcoming and intelligent place. If I have to physically wrangle individuals back from a ledge, I will. ^_^
Additionally, some well-meaning person tagged the creator on Twitter and dragged them into this mess. Please don’t tag creators when you’re posting about unpleasant stuff. It’s so hard being a creator, it’s a terrible feeling to have someone dump some problem you can’t do anything about in your lap. I hate getting a notification that says, “Hey @OkazuYuri, what do you think about this?” What do I think? I think the person who tagged me is a jerk, frankly. Is it my problem to have an opinion on? Can I do anything about it? Do you do this in real life? Why? Are you 12? “Hey, Jim, what do you think about the argument two other people are having in the bar?” Don’t do this.
Lastly, please consider this:
Critical =/ angry
Being critical of work is good and important. Being angry is toxic and wtf
— Erica Friedman, “By Your Side” Coming June 2022! (@OkazuYuri) March 19, 2021
We can and should approach media critically, not with an angry, entitled attitude.
So, what does this deletion mean for us, fans and readers of I’m in Love With the Villainess? It means, we have the opportunity to show ourselves as the best, most thoughtful, kind and loving fandom. We can write Seven Seas, politely, thank them for their LGBTQ content and express disappointment and concern that some content was left out of Volume 1 and if at all possible, ask if it can be restored in the Kindle version and future printings.
That is what we can – if you feel strongly about it, should – do, whenever you feel that there is an issue.
It is somewhat concerning to hear that important information like that was excluded… I can see why it could be perceived as insensitive to foreign audiences, and excluded by an editor — but I’d rather have those details than be left in the dark.
Having read both volumes, I thought it was really cool how Rae talks about her inner turmoil stemming from her past friends and relationships, and how it continues to influence her current actions. It seems a bit shocking that there was more to it.
I am conjecturing, but…I don’t think it was insensitive to foreign audiences, I think, maybe, it made Japanese media look bad and a Japanese editor may have removed it. That seems much more logical to me than Seven Seas making that decision. In any case, it might not have been Seven Seas’ call to make, nor ours.
Well, you will be. They are adding it back in.
“human nature being aligned to pattern-recognition, caused some readers to recognize a pattern. (I’m of the belief that you need three things to form a pattern, but that’s me.)”
I mean, this is the third title from 7S where a major edit has come to light in the past few weeks so it certainly looks like a pattern to me! (And all with different translators and adaptors too) If this was a translation from one of the big 5 American publishers I wouldn’t expect parts to be cut so I have no clue why 7S decided this (yes it could be the Japanese side sending over a different work than they published in Japan but that just feels like a bit of a stretch for me)
Third over what period of time? I mean, I’ve made mistakes over 20 years, too. The last mistake they owned up. They make the occasional mistakes among the many dozens of works they have coming out, yes. If you’re seeing intention then you have not convinced me there’s any specific pattern.
Intent to do…what? Leave out one line in an otherwise wholly queer-friendly title? Why? What’s the motivation? What pattern is it that you see?
In any case, they have responded and will be fixing the issue, as I suspected they might when it was politely brought to their attention.
Third time in the past month, to be specific, that fans have compared the published Japanese light novel with the published English light novel and seen passages that seem to have been drastically edited (in the MT case it was more of fans realizing that the novels must have been edited since the anime was so different in parts and they were correct). I thought you had heard about the previous two since they created a bit of a hubbub and that is certainly making myself and some others concerned about this
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2021-02-17/seven-seas-addresses-mushoku-tensei-classroom-of-the-elite-light-novel-localization-changes/.169582
Funny enough, that omitted passage here would have changed my feelings on this first volume! (Based on the translations I’ve seen of what was missing) In my own review I noted that Rae felt rather flat and veering quite close to a “predatory lesbian” stereotype; with this passage showing that she does realize how she’s coming off that gives her actions more nuance and makes her feel more like a flawed but three dimensional character, something that I didn’t always feel when reading this first volume.
Yes, they have addressed that there was some issue with their editing. They have not elaborated what that issue was but they are planning on fixing this and other problems.
I suppose human nature means that people would like to know the what and who and why of that issue, I just don’t think we have a right to that. If it were my company I would not release the specifics, either. What will fandom do if they know a particular person or process was at fault?
I agree that the omission was unfortunate. It will be rectified – and to me, at least, that is the important point.
When you mentioned what the controversy is over, I swore I had read that in the book! Or was it a longer passage and it got shortened?
Now, I’m trying to quickly find it and I’m not as successful as I want to be… Was there a page number ever mentioned as to where it should be?
Because how can I remember reading something like that and yet someone says it isn’t there?
Anyways, so true that it’s much better to write polite letters with serious intent than angry ones!
Also, can’t wait for the English Print volume 3 and 4! I know they’re available in Kindle format, but I like the real BOOK!! (and I’m too cheap to pay twice for one book)
It was probably on the creator-approved fan translation on their Pixiv fanbox. I don’t know where in the JP novel it was as I have not read that.
I only have the JP novel! :) Either way, I’m happy to have it, and since I seem to have read the “gist” of what was controversial somewhere… I think I’m ok for now. I’m now in the process of expanding my Light Novel collection of which I thank you for the reviews and information! :)
My physical copies of volume 1 and 2 literally arrived today and now I hear they’re going to make a revision lol. I’ll have to add a sticky note for future me as a reminder to look up the difference. How does something like that get noted in books? Would the revised version just have a note on that page at the front that lists the publisher details and credits the translators and such? Does it get a different isbn? Does the difference get pointed out at all?
It’s sad that things got so heated and people even bothered the creator (like, what do you expect them to do?? Get upset? Congratulations you’ve upset someone. *eyeroll*) I try to always take translations with a grain of salt/awareness that it is indeed a translation and not the original text so things can get a little warped or lost in the process. I’m at least pleased that there was a response and action from the publisher to what I hope was civil feedback.
Otherwise, I actually like to see other people’s take on how things should have been translated (so long as they don’t get angry or mean about it). It helps point out some of the nuance of a more complicated phrase or even introduces me to cultural details I had no idea existed. “Wasei Eigo” is one that’s always fascinating to find, and things like pop culture trends are always going to be hard to translate without some sort of infodump footnote that is fun to learn, but doesn’t always necessarily affect how I read the text in any significant way.
I mean, isn’t it kind of reasonable to say that you can’t trust a translation company anymore after several unmarked, unreasonable changes? I’m not saying ‘never buy from them again,’ but isn’t ‘not buying until they show they’ve changed their translation practices to prevent this from happening again’ pretty reasonable?
Not for me, no. I understand that publishing books is an extraordinarily complicated process and there are a number of ways that things can go wrong. Seven Seas has stated that there were some issues with editing and this book was done before that issue was resolved. That’s about all I can ask of a company.
I wonder what people expect? Do folks want the name of the perpetrator so they can send them harassing mail or to complain about how a process was structured? I really don’t get what response beyond “we’re sorry, we’ll fix it” is even possible.
Aside from anything else, I feel that Seven Seas has earned my trust over the years.
There was an interesting post by LN/VN/manga translator Steiner (https://curiouscat.qa/DistantValhalla/post/1192277176), coincidentally(?) posted yesterday, which described a “conservative” editing system at Seven Seas and Yen Press in which a translator’s work is typically edited by an EN-language author with no further input from the translator. Instead, the translation is treated as if it were an initial draft, and the editor makes whatever changes they see fit. So it’s plausible that this editor felt the material was redundant or a digression and cut it as if it were unnecessary, without ever checking back with the translator as to whether that would be a good idea for the intended audience, or if there is some nuance to the material they should discuss further.
A scenario like this is at least consistent with Seven Seas statements on the matter, particularly their comment that “we have since changed how we edit these books to make sure important lines are not lost.”
This makes sense. And, with publishing having such a long lead time, these edits were made month and months ago. So there may be more problems in the near future for them.
Now I’m glad I bought this as an ebook from Apple Books; maybe I’ll eventually get a corrected version as a simple update.
Here’s the thing. Seven Seas has shown a repeat lack of care about yuri title past being able profit on them. Take Bloom into You. When it was licensed a SS rep came on reddit talking about it being licensed and how much they care about yuri titles and how much Seven Seas liked Bloom and all the care that was gonna be put into translating it. Then turn around and he had the volume 1 mess where characters names were periodically completely wrong and info reveals from later chapters/volumes were used early on doing spoilers in dialog scenes where it was suppose to been kept vague. To be fair it hasn’t been just yuri that gets hit with censoring or glaring errors like Elite or Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear in what they switched the characters who were involved in scenes including the mc when referencing the scenes in later volumes/chapters. But it seems yuri gets treated with a lack of care and they are only really interested in profiting instead of quality of what they put out. As said these things shouldn’t be responded to in a angry threatening manner but a line needs to be drawn when it keeps happening over and over again. Who knows how many other series stuff like this has happened.
Just to mention to there has been massive write ups done about all the problems with the translations of Bloom by SS.
I’ll allow this comment once, so that I can refute it. Seven Seas has already addressed that their editing process was flawed. Invalidname gave us a link that discusses the nature of this flaw.
And, I have *just* addressed this specific complaint on ANN forums.
It is not in Seven Seas best interests to purposefully offend fans – and they have spent a decade proving that they are wholly queer-friendly. Ascribing malice simply makes no sense, when a much more sensible answer is that an editor made a poor decision. That a number of these poor decisions involve their LGBTQ titles is because they pick up a lot of those titles. I won’t comment on typos. They happen. No matter how many people look at a book, typos happen. I have friends who are pro editors who are re-reading re-releases of paperback editions of books that have been in print for years and they still find typos. Taking all of that personally is simply not a sensible idea.
Being inchoately angry is destructive, both to you and to fandom. Seven Seas has earned my trust and I will watch for them to fix the process.
Well since you block comments that don’t go with what you say as usual i’m just gonna add this and not bother checking back. Regarding you”support” of seven Seas.
Excerpt from a longer pieces.
So Seven Seas Entertainment is in trouble because it has been discovered that they have made heavy alterations to their publications of light novels without notifying the original Japanese publisher or author.
These changes include complete dialogue alteration and complete removal of scenes sometimes spanning a good chunk of the chapter the cut content was in.
Titles effected are “classroom of the elite” and “mushoku tensei”.
I have a summary article link but upon doing more research it seems the publications they made heavy alterations to were in breach of contract with Japanese license holder.
There is obviously more series they do it to like they did with Vilaness that just didn’t get caught before this was written.
I to was a big supporter of SS but they shown time and time again how little regard they have for showing any integrity for faithfully and attentively translating and publishing series. With only a interest for what money they can make off a series and don’t truly care about putting out a quality publication.
Your obsession with blaming Seven Seas is unhealthy and it is delusional. They are doing their very best – and they have already apologized and will fix the problem. What they fuck else do you want them to do?
This world is full of complex systems with a lot of moving parts and many ways mistakes can happen. Pointing fingers is stupid and doesn’t fix anything. Your anger isn’t righteous, it’s ridiculous. Grow the fuck up.
I know I’m late to the party, and I’m disappointed in the error or decision, but what disappoints me more are the “I’m not buying from seven seas anymore”
Seven seas is one of the few companies that puts out yuri content regularly and has for a long time. Hold them to a high standard, point out there flaws, great. But not buy from them ? They publish very niche titles. I wish yuri had bigger numbers and broader stories (oh look two school girls but is it OK to like a girl!? ) it just isn’t as popular as say a more mainstream manga. How big are their profit margins anyway? I guess if they wanted bigger profit margins they could publish more male power trip isekai. But that won’t help yuri grow in the west.
For one translation is more art than science, it’s a judgement call, and that’s not even counting cultural things. For another I know anime translations sometimes have to go through original license holders for a check, and they can be sticklers sometimes I still remember weird name spellings on simoun, or weird more engrish pronunciations in the new Evangelion dub. thank you Erica for pointing out that it may have been on the Japanese side of things where this error lay. Not to mention how many people there are in the publishing of a book. Just basic human error or misjudgment happens.
I can actually be picky about my English Yuri for Gods sake! I used to buy every Yuri manga I could get my hands on BECAUSE IT WAS YURI.
I’ve been dying for an official translation of 12 kingdoms books past what Tokyo pop put out in the mid 2000’s for years now (if you’re reading this put that on your anime watch list seriously) oh and moonlight flowers. fan translations are great, don’t get me wrong but official translations do a lot to grow a fandom AND PAY THE ORIGINAL CREATORS
Hold them accountable, don’t buy books you don’t want, but not buying books from one of the few publishers that publishes your niche genre? It’s sounds both like whining AND shooting yourself in the foot.
Completely off topic, if you read this Erica you might want to check out the book Dreadnaught by April Daniels about a trans girl superhero she inherits the mantle of Dreadnaught similar to Deku in my Hero Academia and it gives her the physical body she always wanted AND she’s gay, also enjoyed the world building, but the sequel was underwhelming, though it had a gender-neutral superhero,but it might interest you
Thank you Alison, for both the important perspective and for the recommendation. Both are very much appreciated.